Revolutionary Hip-Hop
After 4 months of doing out of town shows, London's own TESTAMENT is back to rip the mic. here in LO city for the first time since the F*@# WAR show in March.
DJ PARADIGM will also be spinning the best revolutionary hiphop including joints off Immortal Technique's new album, so don't miss the realest 2-hours of hip-hop the APK has ever seen!
We ain't hiding, we ain't waiting til your kids are asleep, we're doin this in broad daylight while you nine-to-fivers are workin in your corporate cubicles. So put in your two-weeks now, or call in sick!
Show starts at 3:30PM sharp
Paradigm spinning til 4:45
then Testament's performin til 5:30 (a full 45 minute set)
Cover is only 3 bux! (but nobody will be turned away for being broke- we're doin it for the love)
So if you enjoy hip-hop but can't get down to bling bullshit, come out and support artists that are keeping it real.






crimethink much?
" we're doin this in broad daylight while
you nine-to-fivers are workin in your corporate cubicles. So put in
your two-weeks now, or call in sick!"
wait just a minute there...
Don't be so down on the working class,
there ain't no shame in trying to survive!
-r.
Blue collar,
Blue collar, holla!
“Coffee is a great power in my life...it chases away sleep...”
Honore De Blazac
Always gettin spun!
hhahaha, i like the spin on that. Having worked a number of different 9-5s to survive, some of them in corporate cubicles, I know there aint no shame in doin it to survive. But I think most of us can agree its not the ideal way to live, and survival alone isn't living. It was more of an attack on corporate culture, than the people gettin exploited by it. sorry if i offended any of my working class allies out there, not my intention in the least... LETS GET FREE!
Deflecting crits ain't no thinkable reason - word yo yo.
Neither Rachel or Liz put "spin" on your post. You may not realize it, but you have implicitly, and in part, explicitly, made the claim that in order for people to liberate themselves, they should quit their jobs and attend your music show. Perfomances by Testament are, afterall, more important. In additition, there is a strong indication of moral superiority you feel you have over folk who are working corporate 9-5 jobs. Seeing as you have worked in those positions yourself, you know that everyone hates it! No one likes working in those jobs but as propertyless workers, they have rent to pay. how do you pay your bills Darius? I understand you didn't mean to offend your allies, but making comments like that are difficult to ignore (I'm just being a responsible and friendly ally here). These comments are very problematic.
words to da east side, blitz the bits cause we's in'an outz y'all
werd.
Jeff
ok jeff,
first off I never said the show was in itself going to liberate everyone from capitalist society, that would be ludicrous. I was just tryin to promote it as a daytime show, which is super hard to get people out to especially when many people work full-time jobs during (business hours) and that some people would need time to book it off. You dont need to take things so literally all the time. I rarely get shows in London, and shows at which I can leave with a little grocery money are even scarcer. As for 'how I pay my bills' its none of your fucking business, you sound like the gov., but if you need to know I'm living off OSAP right now trying really hard to make it as an artist (hence the show), I'm also a poorly paid journalist for the interrobang, and I also do a lot of odd jobs in fact I'm painting for the next couple days. I just choose not to be tied down to a nine to five cuz i hate it, and I keep my expenses minimal. Is that enough info for you or do you want a full audit? I don't know who you think I am or where you think I come from but you obviously don't know me, or what kind of life I've lived. I worked my ass off and struggled to be where I'm at now, and you can resent me for having my name co-signed on a mortgage all you want, you sure let that show, but that won't stop me from doing the work I do and neither will your lack of support as an 'ally'.
Peace out homie.
ps dont mock hip-hop culture with your yo yo werd bullshit, its unnecessary and offensive
hey dudes..
not that i am part of your discussion at this point. but before either of you respond, this has the potential of getting rather nasty. mainly because either one of you boys seems to be demonstrating a peaceful method of approaching the other with criticism and you both also seem to be bringing in issues you have with each other that come from outside this post.
please consider how you both wish 'revolutionary' to mean something positive. it is a commonality you both share.
peace please.
lauren....
FYI: rating system sucks
I have no opinion to share about this conversation but I gotta say (again and again) that I think this rating system is one of the worse things ever.
Talk about (Mill's) Tyranny of the Masses!
What wrong with typing a response like Lauren just did? I can't understand for the life of me the ideals behind this, especially from some people who seemingly argued against any form of censorship. "The membership will moderate" I remember hearing. I see now what was in store - instead of doing the face-to-face hard work of policies and agreeing to ideals, we are now dealing with 'internal' and group censorship of the majority.
Not only that, but these threads are almost incoherent after being rated on.
Fuck Polite - it's useless in the face of ignorance. You can be confrontational without being hostile. Non-violent actions are not polite - they are planned disruptions of the norm. Are we activists here above what we dish out?
I hope this pisses many people off.
"Do not be passively good, but aggressive in your rebellion against wrong." Flora MacDonald
http://www.democracynow.org/
online communication
Actually my little rant got me thinking...what is the problem with online communication? The biggest mistake made, I believe, is in not 'visuallizing' online forums as real conversations.
Example: when attending any type of 'real' discussion group, there are always some ground rules/guides and often a facilitator. However, for the LC we have no facilitator except ourselves. Now I know there are some of you out there perhaps with the idea that 'we can moderate ourselves – I/we don't need someone/others to help guide us'. Anarchist leaning? Perhaps, but not the point.
A conversation between many people is always structured because we are all human (For those that are unaware: 1) humans make mistakes, and 2) I/you/we are human).
So if that's true, why do we believe we can step outside ourselves and discuss passionate issues (many times disagreeing) without being 'hostle' at times? I mean, we're not dogs and this ain't Pavlov's experiment – or is it?
So, what I'm proposing is the idea that online forums/discussion groups should follow some criteria. That doesn't mean what is/isn't acceptable but perhaps when and where people can respond to original material. Or perhaps, each member can only respond 2 times. After all, if this was a real conversation the cross talk would make you jump through the nearest window. Right now I'm guilty of it too. But if I started a new thread, others would not like that.
Why should there even be a 'comments' section on articles and events? It just confusing the original message. Think print – your read an article, you either write an article or response that will go in a response section. Perhaps comments could only be accessible by clicking away from the original post (so as it's importance isn't lost).
Remember: online communication is a tool, not the communication itself.
http://www.democracynow.org/
comment viewing options
"Why should there even be a 'comments' section on articles and events?
It just confusing the original message. Think print – your read an
article, you either write an article or response that will go in a
response section. Perhaps comments could only be accessible by clicking
away from the original post (so as it's importance isn't lost)."
Have you tried the 'Threaded list- collapsed' or 'flat list- collapsed' settings under the first 'comment viewing options' menu? That may be more what you're looking for.
-30-
Mike.
"Debout les damnés de l'Université."
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
hidden replys
If the loss of low rated comments is too confusing, the filtering can also be turned off under the 'Comment Viewing Options' menu directly below the initial post. Selecting the 'Show Low-Rated Comments' option will make all the comments visible, Low-rated and otherwise. Also, I find showing the thread with the comments oldest to newest to be the most coherent. That option is under the second menu from the right, under the 'Comment Viewing Options'. I'll bet if you play around with the options a bit, you'll find a combination that works well for you.
-30-
Mike.
"Debout les damnés de l'Université."
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
thanks Mike
Thanks Mike. I understand that you are trying to help me but I'm not sure if your aware of our deep differences on this matter. I was not surprised by your response at all because it focuses on the individual choices. But I am not concerned with just myself in raising this point but the larger picture of Internet communication and especially the LC on a local level - which still has had many problems at a communication level. How many arguments get out of control here...it`s safe to say it`s not the fault of any one individual but a collective problem. If you disagree with that or if you believe Internet communication, for both organizing and personal communication, is working just great then we should not discuss this point any further.
I would like to add that I do continue this conversation because I believe there is great potential for these tools but am frustrated by (and I`m jokingly generalizing here) a bunch a tech geeks who seem to ignore what the audience is asking for. Not to diminish the amazing work and skill they put out for us. I am also very alarmed by the deep problems of anxiety created by social networking.
The idea the more choices for the individual, with no real community bind, is a very liberal solution, but I'm not going to get into that.
http://www.democracynow.org/
reply
Hey all..
I replied to dan (and to the discussion in general)over on the thread about the rating system right here.
I figured maybe we could talk a bit about it there, where there is already dialogue on this topic, so as to give some space here for discussion about the original topic, if there will be any. (I'm to blame here... got the ball rolling in the direction of many tangents :) )
Who knows.. maybe this is good publicity for your show darius!
-r.
civility warning 2
Dan,
I've issued you a civility warning here. Please reply there, not here.
Jeremy McNaughton (a moderator)
I find this fascinating
I was wondering if the people who rated my comments could explain themselves.
Saying "that's not helpful" and not explaining yourself is beyond me. A rating of 3 completely confuses me. But you have to deemed to be polite by the masses to be heard...that's almost the same attitude I got from the University Student Council with PIRG! "don't be offensive" HELLO!
Do we believe we are incapable of causing oppression towards each other? Are we above each others criticism? How someone would vote down a criticism of their comments is beyond me and stinks of cowardice.
Question the intent if your not sure because it is intent versus style that is more important.
Furthermore, do you not find a ethical dilemma on rating others' comments in a conversation you are involved in? But I'm just curious.
http://www.democracynow.org/
off topic?
Just a thought, but your comment might have been rated low because it's off topic and in a way it hijacks the discussion. Your comments about the comment rating system have nothing to do with Darius' event. Hijacking discussions can be seen as rude whether it's online or in person.
this is good
Thanks for your words Jer. I find them far more human than a rating system.
And just because I am about to counter some of your position, I respect the fact you expressed yourself. That is very important.
So for my information: where did this `conversation`get hijacked...It started as an event posting, became about `working people`, to online civility - well before I jumped in. It was not my intent to hijack the conversation. I admitted that I was off topic but expressed how others have been displeased when a new thread is started. But how would I know this if nobody says it. Yet people I know in person just vote it down. Why am I rude and they are not...that is exactly why I brought this up. I agree that hijacking is rude both in person and online but it happens here all the time. It happens all the time without agreed upon STRUCTURE. You said this yourself to me this week in person. Why is the LC any different.
We`re not all fuck`n mind readers. No rules, no responsibility, just made up as we go along - just like part of the IMC problem. Take that personally if you want, but this idea of yours that we should all know some ever changing social etiquette of the majority, is such bulshit. Write it out - not the Wiki BS. It`s not a bad template to start with but most of it makes no sense here, in my view. Give me some agreed upon rules and I will respect them.
`Rude`here, under the current rating system, is nothing more than a opinion decided upon by the majority. Very strange from a group of social misfits! Well, perhaps I`m only speaking for myself, eh, normals!
http://www.democracynow.org/
rating not reality of expression
Does anyone actually believe the rating system is based on politeness or hostility...it is about dominating viewpoints, by design or not. Nothing else. Look at most of the comments rated on - there is nothing `rude`nor `polite`about them. Perhaps people are still thinking about `helpful`and not `helpful`. These things are completely subjective - agreed upon principles are far less so.
http://www.democracynow.org/
Yea, I do believe the
Yea, I do believe the rating system is about politeness and hostility. I believe we're seeing a clear correlation between low ratings and comments that take a hostile, definitive or condescending tone, or contain conversational cheap shots. I believe were seeing a correlation between high ratings, level-headed comments and comments that show an effort to understand or even just acknowledge opposing points of view.
Take a look at Darius' comments HERE and HERE. Contrast the Tone of the commets with the ratings associated with them.
You can do the same for your comments HERE and HERE.
-30-
Mike.
"Debout les damnés de l'Université."
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
interrobang‽
Sorry to pull this off topic a bit, but what's interrobang‽
-30-
Mike.
"Debout les damnés de l'Université."
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
my finger in your ear
a interrobang is putting your (or someone's elses) finger in your ear, push in and out real fast until your ear pops.
or it's a student publication at Fanshawe.
http://www.democracynow.org/
interrobang?
wiki wiki wha???
ok.. you forced me to look it up.
Wikipedia says "The interrobang (/ɪn'tɛrəbæŋ/) (‽) is a nonstandard English-language punctuation mark intended to combine the functions of the question mark (also called the interrogative point) and the exclamation mark"
full article
so.. it looks like you were right John!
-r.
Darius
Quite frankly, I have no idea what you're talking about. I don't really care how you pay your bills. That was a rhetorical question. I was just pointing out that making comments like that tends not to be productive and are highly problematic. I really don't care about your income property. As you say, "it's none of my fucking business". No need to get so defensive.
werd
wow
Ya, this rating system doesn't work. I mean when I sign out and look at this thread, none of it makes sense. meh.
jeff... come on?
it really seems in this last post that you are just brushing off darius's feelings. the coldness here really bums me out jeff.
what happened to allies?
in order to really be progressive i think we have to get past idealogical/ theortical egos.
and as far as the comment "no need to get so defensive" jeff you are one of the most hostile 'interweb users' i have ever met.
Lauren
I find it interesting that you see yourself as a good candidate to mediate this discussion when you clearly have significant biases of your own.
What is an ideological and/or theoretical ego?
In addition, when you said " jeff you are one of the most hostile 'interweb users' i have ever met", did you mean that literally or figuratively. I ask this sincerely, as I don't know what you mean by that. From what I understand, what people write through this medium could be interpreted in a countless number of ways. If that is the case, you clearly have a predetermined conception of what I am trying say here on the commons at all times. This is evident through your opening remarks "it really seems in this last post that you are just brushing off darius's feelings. the coldness here really bums me out jeff." followed by the previously qouted passage.
But hey, what do I know, I only wrote it.
Jeff
:(
i did not deem myself the moral authority to 'moderate' on the LC but instead just felt like i was seeing you repeat a behaviour here that i don't think is very nice and does not promote any feeling of community. i feel like you search the commons sometimes looking for avenus to critique (which is actually not essentially a horrible trait in itself) and then are overly harsh with folk just trying to share ideas. i am not saying that i have a perfect track record of being a saint here, but i really think you could practice a kinder way of being critical. raising your voice without coming off as an intellectual bully.
Insert ironically perplexed face here
First I will point out that those folks who want to see this post as aggressive, will. and those folks who want to see this post as honest and straightforward, will. The point is, your interpretation of what is being written here is subjective based on personal bias and processes of interpretation, so please dont pretend to be objective especially when you have a stake in the conversation.
Lauren, I will let your own words sort this out.
"
i did not deem myself the moral authority to 'moderate'"
hmmm
"i was seeing you repeat a behaviour here that i don't think is very nice and does not promote any feeling of community."
Nice?! Community?! seriously. Please define community for me because we clearly have extremely different definitions. I can't remember the last time we saw each other. In fact I would bet that this 'community' doesnt exist outside our own computer rooms. What kind of community is that? Community requires far more than banging out words on a keyboard. In addition, are you seriously trying to govern my behaviour?!
Let me get this straight. you decide to be 'a good community member' and attempt to moderate (in a transparently biased way) the discussion, for the benefit of the 'community' with no purpose other than to serve this 'community' - even though it is not your appointed position. Is that correct? I am very confused by that. Altruism exists but...
This latest attempt at being the innocent objective observer is the most interesting. Drawing on readers emotive responses rather than actually explaining your harsh accusations is by far more aggressive than anything I have said. It is very subtle and dishonest. Instead of drawing out what you meant by what you said, you have made the attempt to divert readers' attention to an emotive level of how you have become the victim here. Any critical thinker will see through this. Call me an intellectual bully all you want. In fact, I prefer it as it is probably the most straightforward and honest thing you have said so far. It's not true mind you, but at least its honest.
"i feel like you search the commons sometimes looking for avenus to critique"
Clearly this is not the case. Although, I will not mince words when I believe in something. you will get my opinion/perspective with an honest, straightforward reply. Mincing words only dilutes the truth of what I am trying to say. I have played these games on this site for far too long. It doesnt work. When I believe in something I will say it. When I see injustice or wrongdoing, I will point it out explicitly. That's just the way it is now. If you interpret that as being mean, so be it.
The same three people who have voted my comments down before, will, I'm sure, do it again to this one. Being nice isn't my thing anymore. I'm really tired of this dishonest, irresponsible game of make-believe. If you want to chat in person, you will find I am very welcoming and open to dialogue. but I will still call folks on shit, as I expect them to do the same for me.
civility warning
Jeff P.,
You got yourself a warning for the above comments. Please see this thread. Please reply there, not in this thread.
Jeremy McNaughton (a moderator)
"You got yourself a warning for the above comments."
"
You got yourself a warning for the above comments." Interesting use of words Jeremy. the only times I have experienced such ways of communicating have been from police, judges or people of authority in educational institutions. Interesting, isn't it.
This reply is not an argument against your disciplinary action, I have already made one of those where you asked me to. This is a comment about your comment specifically, which, as far as I remember, is completely legitimate.
spinnin'
Hey Darius,
Thanks for your response.
I figured that your comment was offhanded and not meant to offend.
It just sounded a bit like you were putting down working 9-5, you know what I'm saying? and sometimes I just can't resist jumping in ; )
I hear what you and others are saying about survival and corporate cubicles etc., but I think we should always try to check ourselves and remember that although a 9-5 job in a cubicle would not be my ideal (or yours from the sound of it), to some people that is a dream job! and I don't think that's terrible.
There are a lot of shitty things people have to endure to make ends meet and I am thankful everyday for my current luck with employment.
Some people (a lot of us I'm sure) are currently or have had to in the past work 2 or 3 jobs to put food on their table or to pay the rent.
A steady paycheck, benefits and a 40 hour work week don't sound so bad when you're working for minimum wage cleaning grocery stores at night and de-beaking chickens during the day (I've never done it, but I've heard of people who have).
During my poorest times I have had to get pretty creative to keep food in my belly, but I understand how some things aren't as accessible an option to others with different situations than my own (i.e. dumpster diving, lifting etc).
So in closing,
I like to try to be as inclusive and considerate of my fellow working/nonworking poor as possible and I give props to other who do the same (on that note: having a sliding scale price for your shows is awesome Darius!)
I appreciate your response and your consideration of my comment, and would love to hear more from everyone on the subject.
-r.
i've been wondering
there are some people i love who are underemployed/not working right now and i was just thinking about creative ways to suppliment income/survive/eat, etc. when good jobs are scarce or when you aren't in a physical or emotional place where you can work? anyone got brilliant ideas or strategies?
also i really appreciate rachel's comments, its important for us to realize that there are lots of ways that we can get free, and that quitting our 9-5 jobs isn't the only way, although its definately one way. i'm trying to find the strangth to get a more ethical job, but its tough for a lot of reasons to leave my work for a corporate restaurant. i'd like to send out strength and solidarity to everyone who is underwhelmed, unhappy or hates their job. i hope we can all find livelihoods that make us happy AND allow us to survive.
“Coffee is a great power in my life...it chases away sleep...”
Honore De Blazac
9-5er's Anthem
"We the American working population
Hate the fact that eight hours a day
Is wasted on chasing the dream of someone that isn't us
And we may not hate our jobs
But we hate jobs in general
That don't have to do with fighting our own causes
We the American working population
Hate the nine to five day-in day-out
But we'd rather be supporting ourselves
By being paid to perfect the pasttimes
That we have harbored based solely on the fact
That it makes us smile if it sounds dope"
-- Aesop Rock
-30-
Mike.
"Debout les damnés de l'Université."
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
hey darius
i hope that your show goes well, i really enjoyed the song that you did at the aboriginal day of action. and i wish you a lot of luck persuing that kind of great creative stuff.
“Coffee is a great power in my life...it chases away sleep...”
Honore De Blazac
:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrwsUur6SfE&feature=related
cringe
gah... cyndi slaughters it!
much better
-r.
the poverty of 9-5
Hey Rachel,
Thanks for continuing to dialogue with me on this issue.
I know what you’re sayin’. I understand how what I said could sound like I was puttingdown 9-5 workers. However ‘9-5 ina corporate cubicle’ isnt working-poor specific, most 9 to 5ers that work incubicles in this city live quite affluently in a global perspective. And this is why it’s a dream job! Of course when I worked in a corporatecubicle I enjoyed the security of that steady paycheck, medical and dentalbenefits, and the predictable and simple daily routine. I also appreciated the living wagewhich earned me the right to live the affluent lifestyle I had resented othersfor living. But it still wasn’tliving, it was selling myself to survive in the capitalist consumer culture Iwas drowning in because I lacked the help of a supportive community.
My employment in the corporatecubicle was better than it was in the dishpit, or cleaning grocery stores, oron the nightshift, or the temp factory labour, or in fast food (not a singleone of these lower-paid jobs were 9-5). The corporate cubicle was the cleanest,safest, least stressful, and most financially rewarding job I’ve ever had, butis that all I should want? Cleanliness, safety, and capitaI? I couldn’t take the staleair, the fluorescent lights, the whitewashed walls and windowless cubicles, theuniform, professional relationships and corporate attitude, the water cooler(okay I did take many drinks from it as an excuse to leave my cage-likecubicle, have some sort of human interaction, and slack-off). I won’t live just on the weekends.
I can totally relate to your pointabout certain options not being available and accessible to people withdifferent situations than our own. I don’t expect everybody to adopt the same lifestyle as me either. My mother never lifted or dumpsteredwhile she worked three jobs to raise four kids on her own, and I sure as hellwon’t criticize her for that.
Like you, I too try to be asinclusive and considerate of working and nonworking poor and everybody elseaswell. It gets really hardsometimes to make it expressly clear that we are against the system and corporations, not those who work for them. Forexample, it was nobody in our communities intention to insult or offendindividual Tim Horton’s employees when we did the no drive-thru campaign. However, many underpaid, overworked‘team-members’ felt personally attacked and sided with their bosses invehemently opposing a moratorium and aggressively criticizing the proponents of the proposedmoratorium in city hall. It isalso for this same reason that United Students Against Sweatshops isn’tpromoting a boycott of Wal-Mart; which is by far the largest sweatshop employerin the world! At last summersconference it was brought up in conversation but deemed not a good idea as itwould alienate the working poor, and people of colour in our communities Asthey are the primary workers and the consumer base for Wal-Mart. People don’t like it when we criticizethe companies they work for because it makes us feel guilty by association andcalls into question our own ethics in doing what we do to survive. But how do we get around this? This is extremely important if we areever going to affect serious change. How do we get the wal-mart greeter to not feel personally attacked whenwe tell people to boycott the store he works at? How do we get soldiers to not feel personallyattacked when we protest and criticize the wars they are forced to fight? How do we mock corporate culture without offending those trapped in their cubicles? How do we dismantle the system withoutoffending those who grease thegears? These are serious questions that demand a lot of thought and creativity on our parts in order for us to be more inclusive and effective in our revolutionary endeavors.
Much love and solidarity,
-D
:)
Darius i really appreciate the sentiments and the tone of this response. Your willingness to "continue to dialogue" in such a respectful way really demonstrates that we can engage others in discussion or defend a position gently, but passionately.
“Coffee is a great power in my life...it chases away sleep...”
Honore De Blazac
agreed
what she said...
-30-
Mike.
"Debout les damnés de l'Université."
-=There is no Cabal, Long live the Cabal=-
My Photos
REVOLUTIONARY HIP-HOP VOL. 2
For all y'all who didn't make it out to the first katon show we're doin it again on the 26th and It would be totally awesome to see some of you out for it, check the link...
http://londoncommons.net/node/6206